Transcription
Paul Woolmington, welcome to the show. Thank you, Richard, for having me. Really pleased to be here.

I'm pleased to have you. You were a guest some time ago on my boss's former show, Great Minds, and one of the more enjoyable episodes from his early seasons. No, I love Matt. He's just one of the mensches. In fact, he invited me to an event tomorrow night, which I can't do because I've got clients in town. And in the sporting theme, I'm going to go try and see the Knicks tomorrow night. Excellent. I wish I had a winning basketball team in my area, but unfortunately, that's never been the case. I'm over in Portland, and yeah, we just can't seem to get there.

But, you know, welcome to the show. I'm sure most listeners are familiar with Canvas, but to kick things off, can you tell us about Canvas Worldwide in 2025 and what you're most focused on right now?

Yeah, thank you, Richard. Well, we're going to celebrate our 10th anniversary. I don't like anniversaries. That means we can celebrate every single day rather than... And it's flown by. So we've actually got to a point where we're the second largest independent in the world. I think that's part of this theme. America is so large that you can be larger than any of the largest companies in Europe or Asia. We have about 550 employees. We've got six offices and some amazing, amazing clients. Very selective. We have a one Canvas philosophy.

So what am I doubling down on? We are doubling down on our culture. So two years in a row, we've been top 10 ad age best place to work, one of the top agencies, which really gives me great, great pride. We were campaigns US agency of the year, which is fantastic also. But culture is really the underpinning, I think, in an age of technology, AI, everything else. I liken that to the Ferrari, the F1 Ferrari. You just need amazing drivers. You can't be putting a 23-year-old novice into a Ferrari F1. So it's about how humans are in harmony with the agentic age, with the AI age, with the technology age, which is very, very much present in our media lives.

A couple of other superpowers:





We are global, national, and local, which we might talk about in the sports context. Landing the plane into fandoms at a local level is kind of one of our passion points, even if it was FIFA World Cup.



Another superpower would be data storytelling. So back to the human, we are overwhelmed by data, overwhelmed by data, but where are the insights? Where are the storytellers?

So yeah, thank you, Richard. A few of our highlights.

Well, congratulations on 10 years. That's a lot to accomplish in what for some is a short span of time. I mean, personally, you had COVID in there at some point. So the past 10 years to me either feels like 10 minutes or 100 years. I'm still not quite sure. I'm kind of haven't quite caught up.

But I'm glad you mentioned sports. One of the things I really wanted to talk to you today is about sports. Specifically, the US sports market has expanded quite a lot in the past decade or so with NFL games being played outside the US itself. I know we were in Mexico City some years ago for one of our first LATAM events there, and we're all at the hotel and the New England Patriots walked through the door and you're thinking, why? What's going on here? And you see all these famous players and you're like, what are they here for, like some kind of celebration or something? Like, no, they have a game tomorrow. And you're like, oh, okay, well, that's new. I wasn't aware of that. Not a Patriots fan myself, you know, based where I am. But nonetheless, it was pretty exciting to see.

But, you know, those sports fans in the States now are also demanding an increased amount of sports programming from outside the usual, you know, when I was growing up, it was baseball, basketball, and football. And, you know, you knew three people who paid attention to hockey. Now it's a lot of everything. You mentioned Formula One. Formula One is huge here now. You know, soccer, massive here. But to what do you attribute this expansion and interest, I think, on both sides, you know, both in the States and outside of it?

Yeah, it's a great question. We call it the Americanization of sport generally. And I think there's the in-out and the out-in.But to answer your question, I attribute it to an incredibly diverse America. It's a huge country. It obviously has grown up like the Galapagos, a little bit with its own sports ecosystem. But that ecosystem is increasingly not Galapagos. It is actually heading internationally. And also, we're made up, if you think of the minority being the majority currently and in the future, then obviously passion and fandoms really are global. This country is a petri dish of every.

But also, I think, so I would say firstly, it's culturally, demographically. The second is access. We've never before seen more ability to access in a streaming world. You know, access more and more content and more and more diversity of sports. And lastly, I would say it's show me the money. The famous quote from that, you know, from Tom Cruise. It really is still the dominant economic marketing engine of the world. HQ for many global clients. The economic dollars that obviously sponsorships and the like can bring in America make it extremely attractive for the out in as well. So, yeah, I put it down to those points and I can delve, I can dive into any one of them.

Well, let's do that. Let's start with just the streaming and the access. You know, back in the day, we had broadcast television where, you know, if you were lucky on weekends and some weeknights, you'd have a single channel that might be showing a sport. And then you had cable television where, you know, maybe you had access to three or four sports simultaneously. And then streaming now is a whole new level because I believe I have, you know, I have subscriptions now where I can watch at least soccer, some other sports 24 seven if I wanted to. How important has that been? And I think further to that, going back a little bit, why didn't we see that type of expansion with cable alone? Was it just purely the limitations of the technology or is it both that and demand?

Yeah, I think it's that perfect storm of technology meeting demand meeting new players. And by new players, I don't mean the sports franchises. I mean, people who obviously doubled down on NBC, for example. I'll give you one good example. Obviously, they historically didn't have as many of the franchise sports. So when the Premier League came up for bidding many years ago, they really doubled down on it. And I think you can point a finger at NBC being one of the having helped grow that sport. So I would say that was a need, a need to obviously diversify their sports portfolio. At that point in time, they weren't able to, you know, the pendulum has swung even on NBC. And we can come to that. But I use that as just one illustration.

And then obviously, we then had the acceleration of streamers and the multiplicity of platforms and forms in which you can consume. And that has obviously been and sped up. We all know it was multiplied under COVID because we were all sitting there. And of course, it was kind of a little bit of a sad sports experience because certainly what we saw was the acceleration of the streaming technology and the adoption of streaming. So it's again, it's not just one dimension. But I think what has now economically been proven is that sport is, you know, the last bastion of shared live experience. It is the one dominant area that is growing year on year in almost every franchise from viewership and obviously the economics of it. And yes, to your point, it's now available in a multiplicity of places, whereas maybe the restriction of the dominance of the networks in the old days probably meant that it restricted to what they knew best, which were the, you know, the great American sports, which are still very dominant, but now have also expanded. So what you've seen is growth. And notwithstanding all of that, I do think thatthe viewer experience has obviously been enhanced in, you know, whether it's statistics, whether it's gaming, whether it's, you know, we know that nine out of 10 people view any form of sport doing something else at the same time. So obviously that duality of how they consume, whether they're, you know, streaming and on their mobile phone, et cetera, et cetera. But yes, it's really the advancement in platforms technology meets demand, meets marketing. You know, everyone wants a bit of sport. Absolutely.

You know, on top of that, you know, you had mentioned the money side of it, which brings me partially to that and partially to another question. You know, all these games come with a price tag and I assume that the broadcast and streaming rights for a lot of this must be pretty astronomical, certainly more than, you know, I mean, I can barely afford to keep up with, you know, all the various services I subscribe to, let alone, you know, broadcasting anything or advertising during it. But you see these sort of almost like a paradigm shift in a way where, you know, an Apple TV has completely taken over, you know, streaming and there is no real broadcast. I mean, there's a few broadcast games of Major League Soccer in the States. And, you know, Formula One, I think is absolutely top shelf when it comes to what they're doing in terms of streaming. I mean, their subscription model and what they provide you and all the data and statistics and interesting stuff, that's the one sport where when I am watching the races, I'm glued to their app at the same time. I'm not doing anything else, you know, but it is, you know, they have my undivided attention on two screens at once, which is pretty difficult to do, I would say.

Where do you see that sort of going and is that economically even possible, for example, for, you know, some of the larger American leagues, you know, an NFL or if not an NFL, an NBA or a Major League Baseball, all of whom have similar packages but don't necessarily have all the games. We still suffer from, you know, blackout restrictions here and there and, you know, all these weird sort of throwbacks to the broadcast era.

Well, let me start by saying, you know, it's a kind of sad statistic that according to various pieces of research, you know, people who might be on a very tight budget, one of the last things they are sacrificing is their subscriptions to streaming services or cable. That has exponentially grown as we know because obviously, and it's become very complex. So I almost feel like the super app would be the app that actually told you how you can watch your favorite team across every platform and how much it's going to cost you and what are the ins and outs of dropping in and out of sub services during the season, out of season, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I'm sure that super app does exist because everyone is kind of clamoring for.

So yes, we're going through this painful evolution, aren't we? The painful evolution is very painful for local TV stations because of obviously their cable. You know, we've seen an erosion in obviously cable cutting. You've seen an erosion in the power that they had in their local communities because they were able to, let's say, have exclusive rights to certain sports teams that were in the local market. A lot of that has been disintermediated. So we start there.

Then obviously you add on the layer of network broadcasting, which obviously you're right. In the old days, they were very dominant. You know, there might be a couple of players that would carve up the season, maybe even, you know, and now obviously the opportunity for the NFL to have literally seven or eight partners with different games, with the streamers, with obviously different economic models they can build into it. So it has become a very, very complex.

But back to what I said earlier, a kind of sad statistic is it's one of the last things that people will sacrifice. I mean, I hate a statistic that says they might actually scrimp on, you know, food that they buy in a supermarket because they still want to buy their, you know, they want that extra package that buys them, you know, access to whatever it is, the Kansas City Chiefs or the, you know, the Milwaukee Bucks or the Champions League football that you can only get with a subscription from X or Y. So it is a little bit of a, you know, it is a complicated equation.

I think some of the broadcasters are trying to clearly leverage. NBC is another good example. Obviously you have NBC cable. You obviously have NBC. You have USA Network. You have Peacock. Andobviously they will stream at different times on different combinations. So sometimes you're actually pivoting from literally an NBC broadcast, and then if you don't have the subscription, you know, to Peacock, then you're kind of scrambling. But the demand is there, and what we're seeing is obviously, you know, it's been a big part of obviously Amazon and Apple. You know, they have very different economic models. They can amortize an investment in a sports franchise in a way that a Paramount can't, you know, that a Time Warner can't, that, you know, an NBC has to be really careful. You know, its ecosystem is not a retail ecosystem like Amazon.

So, yes, we're only probably in the second innings of where that's going to go. But ultimately, I think the sports leagues and franchises have to also think about at what point do they have a public duty to obviously make local sports available at a local level, national sports, and to optimize the total cumulative audience. So what we're seeing is the cumulative audience is growing, you know, with streaming, you know, in addition to the networks, in addition to local. But at some point, you know, there could be a backlash. And I think that that's something the leagues have to very carefully consider.

So, you know, it's a complicated world we live in today, especially if you're a sports fan following multiple leagues and multiple different sports, you might have to have as many as three or four subscriptions on top of maybe a cable sub.

Yeah, it's interesting that you raise that. I mean, one of the things that you see in sort of other television streaming, you know, you have Netflix moving to, you know, we have an ad-supported tier. Amazon has an ad-supported tier and had an entire network of ad-supported programming at one time that I think they just folded back into the main Amazon Prime Video umbrella. Sports, on the other hand, you know, it's not lost on me that I'm paying Apple for this MLS subscription, but I'm still seeing ads. So there isn't a next level where, you know, we can take the ads out because what are you watching otherwise? You know, you hit halftime, you got 15 minutes of what?

So, you know, your contention that, you know, maybe there is a, I don't know, a place in time where we land on the local teams being, you know, maybe a different cost than if I want, you know, the extended league is super interesting to me because it's funny how people will sort of scoff at a Netflix with ads, but they'll go ahead and subscribe to something with all the sports and continue to consume the ads.

Which brings me to the advertising part of this. You know, what sort of opportunities do you think this expanded interest in sports presents to brands, particularly the expansion of the sheer number of different sports that, you know, 30 years ago you wouldn't have seen here in the States? I embrace it and I think it's one of the most exciting ages in sports marketing or sport as a platform for marketeers. And I'll try and break it down if I can.

Well, first I think is the fandom and the live aspect of sport is obviously very appealing to marketeers. And we actually in our sports report talk a little bit about sport as the new religion. I think it's kind of always been somewhat of a religion. But when you look at, I'll give you a few statistics:





Women's sport is growing exponentially, 78% growth in viewership year on year, 28% growth in telecasting.



There's such an appetite there.



But also in an ad-supported environment, you know, the women and or just viewers of women's sport are saying they're 25% more passionate and engaged in that sport because it's probably truly representative of an underrepresented group, women generally in sport.



And what we're seeing is that, you know, the ad impact is growing.



So, you know, the cost of entry into women's sport is obviously a lot less than the cost of entry into the NFL.



So I think it's giving access to more advertisers, you know, as sport diversifies.



So you don't have to be, you know, one of the giant billion-dollar marketeers who can afford to, you know, be a prime sponsor of, youknow, the what I would call the Division I sports. You now have a multiplicity. And also demographically it changes. Quickly, it changes. You know, you've got obviously different demos, you know, from Rugby World Cup to T20 to cricket. Can you believe it? We actually had the Cricket T20 World Cup in Long Island in Dallas last year. Very different profile. I mean, obviously, Champions League, the entry prices. So now what we have is, you know, tiered entry prices. So you don't have to feel like you're missing out because you just can't afford to be, you know, participating in an NFL ticket.



Yeah, when it comes to those brands that are seeing benefit from all this different sports programming, is there any that stand out to you as being particularly surprising, just in terms of, you know, what has worked, you know, and paired with which sport?

Yeah, you know, the big surprises, I think, are, I'm not surprised about women's sport. I'm so encouraged. So, you know, I'm not going to fudge the answer. I am so encouraged that it is growing exponentially, that obviously the triangle of marketeers, broadcasters, and the leagues, and obviously private investment money, private equity money, you know, celebrity money has come in to really boost women's sports because I've been a fan of women's sport. And to see it grow and to see it becoming a marketing platform.

The surprises, I would say, I was really surprised at Formula One. I grew up, I mean, with this accent, I've lived in America for many, many years. I'm a fully signed up American. But, you know, Formula One, after Drive to Survive, Netflix, you know, we owe, or Formula One owes a lot to that surprise hit. A lot of the teams didn't play in those first two seasons. If you remember, the big teams didn't, you know, it was the smaller teams. And then suddenly this juggernaut came along. And then, you know, clearly also the economics of the money in America. We have three Formula One Grands Prix's now. We don't just have one. No other country in the world has more than one. And some of these countries are fanatics on F1. And we by no means are fanatics in the US. But there is a growing, growing appreciation and understanding and excitement, even though the American driver got relegated out of his team. And we don't have an American driver. But even despite that, it really is a global sport. So that's a surprise. It's had some ups and downs since that explosion about four years ago. It dipped a bit because I think it wasn't as competitive. But I think it's growing. There's a lot of youth. There's kind of glamour. There's global, traveling around the world. I see that as being a bit of a surprise.

A weird one I'm going to give you. I was absolutely surprised that T20, which is a world cricket tournament, came to the US. And the surprise, I was actually at a big conference around the topic with, you know, it's, by the way, a little unknown fact. Cricket is the second most viewed sport in the world. Wow. But there is a caveat. It's because India and Pakistan make up a huge part of it. So we think that if we get about 100, just about 115 million viewers to Super Bowl, you know, is kind of record. India-Pakistan game. But they can't play, by the way, in either of their countries because they're nuclear powers and they're kind of fierce adversaries. When it's played, 700 million people will watch it live. But the vast bulk of them in India and in Pakistan. Anyway, so there's a little bit of a fudge there. Yeah, I mean, it's fine. It's a huge sport in the world. But no, and it came to Long Island. And the other surprise was the US, we were at the conference and the US team beat Pakistan. Wow. I think they were in Dallas. It was being played. And there was a panel, I remember, we were at the City Winery in New York City. And there was all these powerful sports agents and everyone else saying, you know, cricket's coming to America. And this guy jumped out of his skin during the panel. Andhe said, America just beat Pakistan. So, you know, those are a couple of little surprises. I guess the other, I'm not surprised. I'll pivot to one big item, and I think that is how America, Mexico, and Canada are going to share the FIFA World Cup next year. It's going to be very interesting. Three countries, I think we have 11 cities in the US, three in Mexico, and two in Canada sharing the World Cup. And it's going to be so exciting. It's going to be so, but I'm just kind of trying to envisage what these crowds are going to look like when the World Cup is played in New Jersey. Can you believe it? New Jersey finally is going to be world famous because we're playing, the FIFA World Cup final will be played, I think on something like July 19th next year in New Jersey. Go on New Jersey. Yeah, my hometown, Seattle, and we're getting, I think, four matches total. Yeah, and you know, they're thrilled. I mean, they're absolutely thrilled. The whole city is. Yeah, yeah. No, and I think there's going to be great excitement. I think that's going to be another boost to soccer in the US. I think it will benefit MLS. You bet your bottom dollar that David Beckham will be sitting there and various luminaries. And obviously the spinoff on all of that is going to be, we know that this country is changing demographically. So, you know, notwithstanding, obviously, the huge Hispanic support around soccer, you know, it's going to obviously grow. Everybody I know over the last decade, I've been, you know, literally over the weekends, I get texts from American friends across the board, you know, that I work with, friends of mine who support, you know, Premier League teams or La Liga teams or, you know, or otherwise. And, you know, it's just grown and grown and grown. So, you know, and by the way, not at the expense of the NFL or the MLB or NBA. They're all growing as well because they're going. So this point about in out and out in is working, you know, across the economic spectrum.

Well, when it comes to that, how can brands make sure that they're targeting the right consumers through the right sports? I mean, that seems like a pretty difficult thing to sort of navigate with all of this relatively new choice that they have. Yeah, I think, well, obviously, I'm trying not to be overly generic. I mean, it all boils down to your objectives. You should start with obviously a business objective. I mean, clearly we're in the world of commercial creativity, commercial, you know, commercial application of marketing spend. So there isn't really a generic answer. But what I would say is there are certainly lessons:





A, it's obviously deciding a good fit. You know, is this a short term? I mean, obviously you can buy into sport and you can buy eyeballs and you can buy audiences. So obviously that's very much a part of advertising.



So I would say, you know, the right sport, the right time, the right place with the right viewing and at the right price is always going to be a consideration if obviously you're a media agency advising clients.



But I think if you're looking for a long term, what is the long term fit for sports? If you're thinking of obviously platforms, you know, what is the demographic? What is the growth potential? What is the potential to, you know, for that sport to be flexible to your marketing needs? How do you activate it? How do you 360 it? You know, dare I say, you know, it isn't just about your, you know, you could be a sponsor, but then what's your advertising content? What's your personalized content? What might be your local activations off that?

So, you know, we're very proud to be able to obviously have six offices. We've got clients that we, you know, we have at a global level, but then we have clients who have national activities. But in all instances, we're actually also pulling it all the way through down into fandoms at a local level. Yes, we all love the NFL, but do we really love the NFL? We love teams in the NFL. We're passionate. And that comes back to the religion. You know, these can be transcendent experiences and affinities. The other thing I think that is interesting as a phenomenon in a world that seems more divided, where there are more political divides, et cetera, et cetera. Sport is still one of the great bastions of being neutral. If you're a Kansas City Chiefs fan, you can be in the stadiaand you can be hugging and celebrating and in the pregame and online with people of every disposition, and it almost cuts across political and other potential divides. And that, I think, is quite a good thing for marketing. You know, you do want to tap into those fandoms and what it really means. And I think that that is about taking a longer-term perspective, buying the eyeballs, which is obviously very important. You can do that, but it's thinking about ways in which you can fully integrate into the passion of the fandom and really create advocates out of that fandom. And be appropriate. Turn up in an appropriate way. Turn up in a passionate way. Turn up where you help fans, where you embrace fans, where you activate fans. I think all of those things were always true, but I think will be even more true to get. Because as the dollars increase, you're going to have to squeeze more out of the value out of those sponsorships and or commitments.

That's super interesting, and I couldn't agree with you more about the new religious part of it, if not fully religious part of it. I was at a women's soccer game yesterday here in Portland, Oregon, and the stadium was packed, and I've never been in a louder sports stadium in my life. I mean, it was just absolutely crazy. It's so exciting, and I love going to lots of different sports because you get so many different experiences. But what's common is what I call the collective effervescence. I love that word. The collective effervescence. And also it can be the collective, but look, we don't all support winners. What I have incredible empathy and love of is the fandoms that aren't necessarily the winning teams, and yet they find a reason to turn up. It is aka religion. There are a lot of parallels:





The rituals,



The mythology,



The sacred spaces,



The communal experiences,



The pilgrimage.

I'm using kind of somewhat religious language, but going to a revered stadium, if you can't go, let's say you live far from your hometown, but you go back, it's your pilgrimage back to that stadium. But ultimately, it's that communal experience. And increasingly, technology allows us that communal experience. You were pointing it out. I think a lot of people watch sport in a communal, even if you're in your living room, and you may be not with your friends and family, you can still feel that communal spirit by being part of a digital online community that's actually viewing at the same time. So it's kind of huge. It's huge, and it's growing, and it's getting more complex. And navigating, having the Sherpa that can navigate through the sports terrain now is much, much more complex.

As you were saying, I just looked it up. The NFL has seven broadcast partners now. Wow. Seven broadcast partners. It's incredible how it's expanded. Back to what we were originally saying. Yeah. Well, no wonder I can hardly ever find the games. It used to be Sunday at 1 or Sunday at 10 on the West Coast. That was where your NFL was. And now it's, well, no, this is Thursday night. No, that's Monday night. No, it's Saturday. No, it's 3 in the morning because it's in Germany, whatever. You're just kind of like, all right, well, they're my team. I'll get up. It's fine.

So I think the Americanization of sport is down to obviously availability, economics, and the diversity of America, but also the diversity of the world. So, you know, I mean, it is unquestionable that the NFL, NBA, MLB, and others are looking for global expansion. You know, we clearly see the NFL playing in London, Mexico City, Frankfurt, Munich, Brazil, and I think to come Madrid, but also how the teams all sponsor countries. So, you know, pre-games, you know, it's really diverse. You've got similarly MLB, the NBA, who are also playing official games, but unofficially, you know, doing great business. The MLB, I mean, record-breaking audiences turned up for the games in Japan. You know, it's, you know, Asia, particularly Japan, Korea, places like that are absolute, you know, huge markets and growth markets for MLB. Over and above, you know, pre-seasons where they'll go to, youI know, their pre-season, they're going to India, you know. There's a parallel with actually statistics. A lot of people are very confused about cricket. I go, well, when I first came to America, I was confused about baseball. I was at the Yankees game on Friday. I love baseball now. And it's a game of stats, and it's different, but it's very similar to cricket. It's got a lot of parallels. I see that grow.

But then you've got the out-in. You've got FIFA World Cup coming. Canvas worked on the – we were one of the agencies that worked at the beginning, actually, 2016, on LA's bid for the Olympics. And, of course, it was originally going to be 2024, and we now have it in 2028. You've got FIFA. You've got F1. We talked about it. Three Grand Prix's in the U.S. when no other country in the world has more than one. You've got cricket. You've got literally Rugby World Cup. You've got NFL. You've got – Peacock are showing rugby games. It's got a higher demographic profile. The U.S. has got actually a great rugby heritage, but it's been probably number 12 on sport. But men and women play it in colleges. You know, they play it in every college or every major college has a rugby team. And it's an amazing sport.

But all of that said, it just shows the power of the economic might of the American marketing economy. And obviously everyone wanting a bit of that. Show me the money. Everyone wanting a bit of show the money.

Paul, this has been absolutely fantastic. I love talking about sports, but moreover, I love talking to you about sports. This has been highly educational. Thank you so much for taking the time.

If one wanted to find out more about Canvas and particularly the Americanization of global sports, you said you had a report. Where would they go?

Yeah, so if you go to our website, it's canvasworldwide.com. The report is available there. And maybe what we – if you would allow it, maybe we put a link into the interview and we can do that. We update the report throughout the year. So the latest report coincided. We actually launched it at New Orleans at the Super Bowl. We updated it for the beginning of the MLB season. And we will be doing a Cannes Lions edition, which will have some fabulous new chapters in it, including a big in-depth look at LA 2028 and FIFA World Cup, which will obviously – we'll start that countdown. It will be a year almost to the – we will be hosting the first games.

We're going to add a few new chapters. We're going to do a chapter. We're really excited by – and it's woven through, but we're going to look at sport and technology and obviously the application of AI and the viewer experience, but also in the – how marketers are using AI around sport, personalization in sport, and various other things. So yes, canvasworldwide.com is our website. And we'd love to provide you with a link. And it's an easy read, 10 chapters, a lot of pithy topics. The whole report is about 80 pages, but literally you could pick one of your topics, and it's a five-minute read. And I think you'll have a bit of fun with it. We said we didn't want one of those Deloitte white paper reports. We wanted kind of – we wanted canvas meets Vanity Fair meets Fast Company meets sport.

Well, we'll put a link to it in the podcast description to make sure that's there, and then that way people who are watching sports can have their extra something to do while they're watching.

There we go. There we go. Yeah. Listen, yeah, well, Richard, you are absolutely great. Thank you so much. Love Advertising Week. Matt Sheckner is one of my all-time favorite human beings. So, you know, always a pleasure to partner with you guys. Thank you.