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Hello and welcome to the Business of Marketing Podcast. Today we're joined by Claire Turner, the Chief Commercial Officer at Pearland Dean. Claire, welcome to the show.

Thank you, John. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. It's an absolute pleasure.

So, hey, to start with, it'd be really great to understand a little bit about your role within Pearland Dean and your career journey as well. I mean, you've been in cinema for a while. And what attracted you to that medium?

Yes, so I have been in cinema for three decades, which is a long time. But it is just, I've just got a huge passion for film and for cinema. And I see it as the best medium to work in. I mean, yes, it's traditional media, it's a heritage media, it's been around for over 100 years. And then Pearland Dean within that, we had our 70th anniversary a couple of years ago. So we're a real heritage brand.

So what attracted me to cinema is, you know, I did a fairly traditional route business at university and moved to London and I had three job offers. This was obviously back in the 90s, so slightly different time. One for TV, one for radio, one for cinema. And it was just hands down that I wanted to work in cinema. I mean, what's not to love? I mean, it's total escapism. And there's always something new and interesting with the film content to talk about.

So my role as chief commercial officer, I look after the commercial side of the business. So that's working with brands and also working with our cinema partners to develop their fantastic brand storytelling, creativity for our partners.

So cinema is obviously hailed or often hailed as one of the most impactful mediums. So from your perspective, what sets it apart from other advertising channels?

Well, that's the gem of the question and really easy to answer because there's nowhere else really anymore that you switch off for, you know, between two and three hours where you are not sucking, screening, that's socially unacceptable to be chatting and being on your phone. So for a brand to have this environment, and obviously you've got everything that goes with it, you know, the huge sound, the huge screen, plunged into darkness, captive audience, a real mindful audience and people who have actually paid and opted in to go and choose to see a film. So, and you've got the attention, you know, the attention piece, we know that 24 seconds out of the 30 second ad is viewed. And when you've, I've just actually been on the gaming chat here at Adweek and, you know, when you think that 1.3 seconds is the average view for social, I mean, it is a, you know, sort of second to none environment. And the ads tend to be much more entertaining and we know, we've just had our latest piece of fame research that audiences look forward to the ads and enjoy the ads in cinema. And it's an incredibly trusted environment too.

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. It is so much more immersive even now than it was in the past. The three dimensional sound of the entire experience. And there's a sense of when you're there being transported.

Yeah, it's the ultimate escapism, is it? You can just totally switch off. And I think that, you know, I mean, I'm a huge cinema fan and I, you know, I go regularly to Real Busman's Holiday. But even if it's a film that you've possibly, it's not one of your favourites, you still love that experience of going. You can't replicate that at home no matter how big your telly is.

And then how do you see cinema and advertising within cinema complementing digital and traditional marketing strategies?

I mean, cinema is rarely used in isolation. So I think it's always, you know, that people always put pitch brand versus performance, but it's brand and performancetogether. So, you know, you've got cinema offers a fantastic branding platform. It's great for, you know, the real storytelling pieces of creative. But then obviously, you know, follow it through on social media to get a more of a, you know, sort of, you know, bottom of the funnel type experience. So it is complementary. And the same with TV, you know, TV and cinema. We've got numerous research studies that show that they are, you know, complementary. And actually, the ROI by adding cinema to a TV cinema campaign is really positive. It increases.

And with the rise of streaming services and I guess the changing of viewing habits, we're talking about TV and people viewing in a different way now. I mean, I don't watch terrestrial TV. I typically watch things that I'm more interested in. Do you watch films on TV? No. No, I tend to go to the cinema to watch movies and immerse myself because I like that experience. Or I've got an awful lot of movies at home, you know, stores and, you know, where we sell DVDs or whatever still, I'll still play. But I like to choose my time to watch things.

But with that change in terms of viewing habits, how have you adapted your strategies to maintain relevance of cinema advertising? I mean, it's interesting, the sort of the streaming versus sort of cinema argument. And I guess if I go back to, you know, back in time to the 80s when it was off the VHS and beta, that was sort of, you know, that's the death of cinema. And now streaming is like that is going to kill cinema off. I know I'm sort of going beyond a bit of what you asked in the question. No, that's fine. I think just for context, it's interesting to share that.

And alluding to fame, which is our film audience measurement evaluation data, it's an annual survey, and we just had the results presented yesterday. And what it actually shows is that, you know, people who love content will watch it on streaming and on cinema. So the actual correlation between the more platforms that you subscribe to, the heavier, as in the more frequent cinema goer that you are.

So in terms of adapting our strategies, I think, you know, cinema, we don't see streaming as rival, we see it as complementary. So even though, yes, you can advertise on Netflix and Disney, it's still a very different experience. It's like, you know, it's listening to music at home or going to see a concert. It's like cooking at home or going out to a restaurant. It is an experience. So we stayed fairly true to our North Star, which is just to create fantastic storytelling experiences for brands.

And, you know, we recognize that our audiences, you know, certainly against the sort of 15, 34s, you know, almost two thirds of them go to cinema once a month or more, and they might have five or six streaming platforms. Yeah. And we also saw that with torrenting, didn't we? So people, this is pre-streaming, people were torrenting, rights owners paranoid that they're stealing the content. But those people who were torrenting were the individuals who were then going to, they were the super fans, right? They were going to the cinema, they were buying the products. Yes. They were buying the, you know, the costumes, like Frozen could be an example for their children. Yeah. And they were really the people that, I suppose, that should have been targeted, advertised to, marketed to, and nurtured. And a medium that allows you to identify who those individuals were as well. Completely.

And I think also just going back to the, you know, the platforms, the streaming platforms, they're really, you know, Apple, Amazon obviously just bought the Bond, not just, but bought the Bond franchise, Netflix. You know, they all produce great film content that they now commit to showing in theatres, in cinemas. So it's, you know, it's just more content.

Also, are there any specific audience segments that you find more receptive to cinema advertising today? Well, we're a fairly broad church in cinema and our audiences, you know, we obviously got a lot of Gen Z, a lot of, you know, Gen Alpha. I think that we, to just go back to, you know, the pandemic when cinema was obviously heavily impacted, and we saw a lot of those younger audiences, the children especially, sort of moving away. And it is very, very satisfying to again see the research yesterday that thoseaudiences are really coming back. So I think that in terms of where we can add a competitive edge against Gen Z is just the attention piece. Because, you know, on the platforms, TikTok, etc., Insta, the attention to what's in terms of brand advertising is just 1.3 seconds. Sure. So the attention span of this younger audience is diminishing online, whereas in the cinema, we know that the dwell time, certainly with kids in the younger audience, is like 30 minutes in foyer before the film starts, which offers a great opportunity for brands to connect with those audiences too.

And then you've got cinemas recognizing, so we work with Everyman and Curzon, and they offer Everyman sort of baby and toddler clubs and clubs for old audiences when you get a cup of tea and a piece of cake. So it's really about just recognizing what the commute... We at Pearland Dean, we have a lot of independent cinemas and a lot of premium cinemas that offer elevated experience, often on the high street. So it's really our cinemas understanding what their communities need and providing for that need, and then us being able to talk to brands and sort of match those audiences so they align.

But yeah, we're a fairly broad church. You've got anything from Downton right through to Minecraft, which is coming up on Friday. Something for everyone. I have to let my brother-in-law know about that. These kids are fanatic about Minecraft and they build some insane stuff in that space. It's huge, or will be huge, I think.

In terms of that, innovation. So what innovations have excited you the most that you've seen recently or things that are emerging? Yeah, I think that in terms of what we do in the sort of advertising space and working with brands, what I've really loved is a partnership that we developed with National Parks. So we originally worked with Geketh. We launched in September last year. So it's really about how we as Pearland Dean can be a force for good and how we can use, we don't own our cinemas. So in terms of what they do in the sort of sustainability space is sort of beyond our control. But what we can do on screen is, and what we are doing with Wild Spaces is nature restoration projects brought to you by the band and by Pearland Dean. And then we create every quarter a mini documentary of the project. So the first one was in Kinder Scout, the Peak District. And then we show a mini documentary in cinemas. So it's like a content piece within the ad reel. And it's sharing with the audiences by choosing to go to a Pearland Dean cinema. Some of your money is going to fund these projects. So it's, yeah. So there's a purposeful alignment. There's a purposeful alignment, absolutely.

I think it's about how we can work with brands to create something that suits their needs. And if it can be purpose-led, then we are, you know, we're keen to lean into that.

And you've also partnered or collaborated with brands such as M&S, EDF, different brand articles, Chambord and British Airways. Yeah. Be interested to understand how these partnerships were maybe developed and the impact that they've had.

Yeah, I mean, the way that we work with the partnerships, and it's a real area of growth because at Pearland Dean, as I mentioned, the cinemas that we represent are really, as they do really lean into creating, you know, meaningful partnership for brands. So at Pearland Dean, because we do have this rich heritage and people often think we're, you know, greater than the sum of our parts, it's allowed us to move into different areas, but with a connection to film all the same.

So 10 years ago, for example, we started working the outdoor cinema space. So creating events and partnerships for the likes of Little Moons and Australia. But really the way that we work is working with theagencies and the clients to brief. So it's not off the shelf. It's about what can we do to help them achieve their objectives. To help them achieve their objectives. So one that I'd like to mention is Jaguar, JLR. So we've been working with JLR firstly for Jaguar and then for Land Rover around them being their Everyman's car partner, which involves bringing to life preview screenings and events at the cinemas and it's just been a real freewheeling partnership.

And another one which I absolutely love is one that we worked with Butcher's Dog Food, so from JLR to Butcher's. I mentioned something for everyone is that we have doggy-friendly screenings across some of our cinemas. So it's just really, you know, just taking that idea and yeah, we've doubled down on our partnerships team at Curling Dean and it's a real sort of growth area for our business.

Yeah, I had no idea that you could take a pooch to a cinema, that's incredible. Have you got a dog? I would love a dog, but I have a cat at home. I have a dog, but I would not be taking her to a screening because she's absolutely nuts. But I hear that they are very well behaved.

I'm just going to try something, I'm just going to see if I can play this. So that's obviously your iconic sonic branding, really. As a kid growing up in the, well, born in the 70s, growing up in the 80s, my life journey through to now, that piece of music has always stuck with me and I think it's hugely memorable for any individual that's certainly grown up in the UK, gone for that experience, goes to the cinema. It was amazing actually just looking that that piece of music, I think it first aired in 1968 and I think it was linked to Space Oddity. It was a chap called Pete Moore who orchestrated it and it's called Asteroid. So that's the name of the music. So we've iterated a couple of times over the years, but we've kept true to the original.

And we do work actually with a lot of brands with our music and create bespoke ident. So we work with a lot of the studios. So brands who want to move closer to film, we often create bespoke content with our music. And I think it's really interesting when we did a piece of research with a neuroscience agency and we wanted to track people's sort of brain responses when they were in a cinema and the anticipation when that music played was sort of peaked hugely. I mean, it was like that moment that you are, you're here, you're in the cinema, you're ready, you're relaxed and you're waiting to be entertained.

Am I right in believing, I just want to look back to when I was a child, that we used to have intermissions. Was there music played at the intermission as well? If there was, I would have been incredibly excited because that means it's time for ice creams and popcorns or snacks. I am not sure, I'm not sure, but they obviously did bring an intermission back for the Beatles. I don't know if you went to see that. No, it was three and a half hours long. I didn't either. I do like the idea of intermission, certainly when it's a longer movie. There is an appetite, there is definitely an appetite for having an intermission of sort of 10 to 15 minutes when a film's longer than three hours or so. And I also remember during the intermission, they would be advertising as entertainment as well. So perhaps there is an opportunity in that respect.

Yeah, I think the music as well is synonymous with film and it's often used, Graham Norton's used it, Alan Parkis has used it, it's always on Strictly. So it's always used as a sort of segue into a film section. So it's great to have that as a brand because obviously we're a B2B brand, but we're also B2C. So there's obviously a number of challenges that some cinema chains, well all cinemas really, have been through in recent years. You've touched on COVID as part of that, but there's also opportunities clearly at the same time. What doyou see as some of the core challenges, but also more importantly or more conversely, what opportunities do you see emerging out of the cinema space? I think we'll see a continuing investment in cinemas to make them real experiences, to offer fantastic F&B, to be destinations, to create environments that you can't replicate at home. So I think the technology, we'll still see advancements in technology. So moving from bold technology through to laser projectors, through to HDR and VDR, and just really improving that experience.

I think that we'll also see there's a real demand for sort of retro, for reps. So for Prince Charles, which is one of our cinemas, it's phenomenally successful, had its best year ever last year. And I was at a conference the other week and there was a panel of Gen Zs and they all said that they wished there were more rep films to see at their local cinemas. So I think that will, and it was an audience of exhibitors, so all the cinemas were there. So kids that haven't seen the original Top Gun or the original Ferris Bueller's Day Off or horror, horror is a massive growing genre. So I think that we might see more of that. And then you've obviously got all the outdoor cinema, which is what they show and they did incredibly well.

I think we'll also see growth in accessible screenings. So having, I think it's something like 40% of Gen Z watch TV with subtitles. And I think about half said they would welcome more subtitles in cinema. So I think we'll see that growing more, which is fantastic. Yeah. Well, that also opens up inclusivity, catering to people who might have a level of disability and so on, and making cinema much more accessible for all. Completely. Yeah. And I think that would be a fantastic for our industry to embrace that. And yeah, we are heading in that direction, which is really positive.

Yeah, it's interesting you say, you also talk about analog really, and we've been talking about those movies. Yeah. And you always see these sort of 20 year cycles, don't you? So if you think digital, maybe mid 2000s, 20 years down the line, kids, younger people are interested in analog as a medium. You see that within music, people going out and buying analog synthesizers from the 1980s, maybe early 1990s, photography, people wanting to use wet film and understand that. And there's a certain, I guess, emotive quality to those forms of images because you've got the grain, you might not have the perfection that brings a beauty to that medium as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember watching 35 mil films and you'd see the little dot where you knew that the projectionist would be, we've all watched Cinema Paradiso. Where you can see it changing. I think as well, in terms of film content, and I think we'll continue to see great films being produced by the traditional studios and the networks. We've got a great slate this year, which is fantastic. And it's probably the first year since the pandemic, then obviously we had the actors and writers strike, where films, we saw the sort of what happened at the end of last year when we had like a massive bunching of all those titles like Gladiator, The Kid, Paddington. So last year we had five out of the top 10 films came out in November and December. Whereas this year, it's looking like a really strong slate throughout the year, obviously ending with Wicked and Avatar.

So a few more questions. So looking ahead, what's your point of view or what's your vision in terms of how, I'm not going to hold you to this, but how you see cinema advertising evolving perhaps over the next five years? Yeah, I think that cinema, as I say, cinema has been around 100years and will continue to, well, I will say this, will continue to be a strong medium. I think we'll see, we are seeing, and I think this trend will probably continue, sort of longer and made for cinema creative. And so you can, you know, even a sort of two minute, 90 second piece of content. I still think it will be, cinema will be a place for younger audiences to enjoy probably their first independent, you know, away from mom and dad experience. It's a safe space to drop your children off and leave them and hang out with their friends.

So I think we'll, you know, and there'll be different technologies that come into play and we're exploring those at the moment in terms of how we sell cinema advertising on a fewer on screen basis. I think we'll see more and more cinemas. And as I said earlier, investing in really great F&B offerings and premium environments where people are spending, you know, 28, 30 pounds per head and per person on visits. So I don't think we're going anywhere soon. Well, no. We're here to stay. And I think as media becomes even more fragmented and it's more difficult to reach, certainly the audiences, you know, we offer a place, provide a place for that to happen.

I mean, the other piece you talked to earlier as well was the dwell time. So people arriving half an hour early, spending more time in that foyer and in space. That strikes me that there's maybe opportunities for location-based advertising. Absolutely. And, you know, on mobile devices. Yeah, yeah, totally. You know, we've got our Perlandine app where you can actually buy tickets to, you know, to your local cinema. So really, you know, it's just really exploring all sort of tech opportunities that come our way. It's an ever-evolving world. And AI is another space. I'm on the AI working group of Perlandine and just really leaning into that and making sure that, you know, we are, you know, yes, we are a heritage medium, but making sure that we're taking advantage of sort of tech ops that are available.

Fascinating. I'm sure we could go down a massive rabbit hole in terms of the AI piece. Another quick question. So if you were to be offering advice to a brand who's considering cinema advertising as a component of their marketing mix, what might that look like? Offering advice, it would be that, you know, if you want an incredibly impactful campaign where your ad is seen, where you can be really specific with your targeting, you know, whether it's, you know, older audiences, you know, male, female, stews, more premium sort of market audiences, it's very easy to create a bespoke campaign.

I would also say lean into us in terms of, you know, partnerships and what we can do outside a screen space, you know, whether it's creating bespoke events. You've got a brand experience agency called Dye who do a lot of one-off events for brands. So I'd say it's just, you know, give us an opportunity to show you what we can do.

Yeah. Many people don't realize that you can actually hire a cinema and put an event on. I certainly did, goodness, probably about eight, nine years back. I hired a cinema in Leicester Square. I put on an event, we called it Popcorn. It was around award-winning case studies. Right. And we had a book as well that accompanied that. So, yeah, and it was a fantastic environment, an absolutely perfect environment because you've got the stage there as well as part of the setup.

I mean, we created a campaign for Rimmel around Mean Girls where it was around the opening weekend of Mean Girls. They took over the foyer, there's sampling, there are activations, everything was in a goodie bag. So it's just a real way to engage more deeply with the audience. And similarly with Goo, the Goo Puddings, around the opening weekend of Magic Mike. So I was seeing lots of women flocking to the cinema events. So, yeah, there's real ways that it's notjust about on screen, it's definitely about creating something that, you know, that can talk to the cinema goes in your audience. That can talk to some of my girls in your audience in a great environment, A, but also in a sort of deeper way.

And then, hey, look, just finally to wrap things up, what advice would you provide to a younger individual looking to get into the advertising, marketing industry, or perhaps even the cinema industry?

I think the number one thing that you need to have is passion. And I think you've got to love what you do. And, you know, we're working a heck of a long time, so find something that really inspires you and that you want to get up to. You know, after all these years in this industry, I want to get up and go to work and I love it. And, you know, a passion for what you do has got to be the start.

Yeah. I mean, that's exactly it. And if you love what you do and you love going to work every day, it doesn't feel like work. It's enjoyment, right? Find something that really you love and inspires you.

And I'd also say, you know, the culture of an organization is really important. I mean, at Pearl and Dean, you know, we've got a very collaborative, people-centric team. You know, we're a small company and you really, you know, anyone can get involved in ideas. It's not just the domain of one particular team. So finding a place where you fit and where you enjoy the culture and, you know, that's the way passion and finding a place where there's great people.

Very wise words. Helen, with that, thank you so much for being on the show today. I've absolutely really enjoyed our conversation.

Me too. And I wish you a fantastic advertising week Europe and rest of the day.

Thank you, John.

All right. You're welcome. Thank you. Bye.

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