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Greg Beauchamp, welcome to the AW360 podcast i’m so pleased to have you on today oh man thank you so much for having me pumped to be here so to kick things off for the uninitiated tell us about bindery So Bindery is a creative agency and production studio. We’re based in New York City. We’re in the Chelsea neighborhood. You know, different clients kind of come to us with different briefs, but it’s really the same kind of core need. It’s how do we unlock the storytelling potential of the brand to create that stronger emotional connection and ultimately drive growth. So kind of stories are our, that’s our superpower. That’s what we care a lot about. you know, sort of my background as I came up through independent film and helping brands, you know, create longer form content. So that’s really kind of like the, you know, the center of everything we do is rooted in storytelling, rooted in craft, rooted in narrative. And so we work with brands across a lot of different types of projects. It could be sort of a brand storytelling exercise where we help kind of unlock what their storytelling potential is. Could be an advertising exercise where we’re really crafting a TV campaign or something of that nature. And then also through to kind of long form and serialized content. So we were kind of very early in the, you know, of on the wave of helping brands create really great branded and narrative content and so we continue to do that as well so really a few different ways in which we help brands and then we also create our own original content so whereas we might do 10 to 15 branded projects a year we’ll do about one to two original projects that might be a film or it might be a digital series or it might be a pitch for a television show so we’re always kind of you know, flexing our storytelling muscles on the original side as well. I love the fact that you’re also creating things for you. You don’t hear, well, I was going to say, you don’t hear too many people say that. I can’t recall the last time I spoke to somebody who was doing that. Yeah, I mean, I think it’s, you kind of do what you feel compelled to do, right? That’s sort of, you know, for me, that was always kind of the driving force. I love film, you know, I love television, but I also love how to kind of create those stories to kind of move, you know, brand and business. And so, you know, that was kind of the intersection for me, but I was always sort of drawn to create that original content. The one thing that, at its core, there’s always a way to kind of bring truth and craft and storytelling within kind of like a longer form piece of content. And so that’s why we engage in this kind of film or television content. But what’s great about brand content and commercials is you can apply that same level of idea and craft and storytelling in sort of like quick, fun ways. And so I think if you’re, you know, a maker, which, you know, our, our studio, like everyone has this like tremendous kind of maker spirit and we want to be putting things out into the world and we want to be, you know, creating things, um, you know, over and over again. I think, you know, the longer form stuff takes so much time that we have so much fun on the brand side, you know, making things that we can get out into the world really quickly. And so it’s kind of this like great mix of, you know, craft and long form narrative and storytelling, but then also this like quick kind of maker spirit that we’re able to apply to the brand projects and just kind of get more out into the world. Well, Bindery has become a go-to for what we think of as challenger brands and ambitious startups. The fun part aside, what draws these brands to your approach and how do you help them scale along the way? Yeah, I think what’s happened with a lot of the brand clients that come to us is they really need to kind of bring together that storytelling potential, that kind of brand narrative, that brand story. They need to bring that together with kind of those demand goals. So a lot of the companies are kind of at this inflection point where they’re ready to scale and they want to use big channels like television or streaming, but they don’t necessarily have the luxury of running separate brand campaigns and then separate performance campaigns. They kind of need that one big investment to do both of those things. And so that’s where I think we’ve drawn a really great, that’s really our sweet spot is like, how do you build that credibility for the brand, but also drive conversion in the same breath? And so for us, that’s really kind of like that mid funnel. And we found that kind of those storytelling muscles, that narrative experience, that’s where we can really bring that to bear for a brand. Because in that mid funnel, that’s really where customers are deciding if that brand is worth it, right? If it’s worth their time, if it’s worth their money, if it’s worth the trust. And so it’s not just sort of like that awareness campaign where you can win maybe with a big flashy stunt, but it’s also not just at the bottom where you’re optimizing for clicks. It’s kind of this hinge point where there’s sort of emotional relevance and cultural relevance meets commercial intent. And that’s where storytelling is a tactic that is so important. That’s sort of where we found our sweet spot and where we kind of bring that pedigree of longer form storytelling narrative craft. That’s where we really have found a lot of success with clients is in that kind of mid funnel. That’s interesting because most agencies I speak with are looking at top funnel or bottom funnel as where they want to live, whether they chose to do that or that’s where they sort of landed. I couldn’t say, but you’re right in the middle. How did you get in the middle? Was it kind of a trial and error thing or was that sort of the intent? And then on top of that, how does that fuel both brand and performance? So part of it is by design, right? Like we saw, we had this insight that, you know, their storytelling was really important within kind of this mid funnel marketing. But there also was not a lot of craft that was being applied to that content, right? It was either, you know, it oftentimes just looked really bad. A lot of focus was put on that top of funnel work. And then of course, not a lot of craft that always applied to sort of, you know, bottom funnel work. And so this felt like a place where you could actually bring that narrative storytelling in a lot of craft and for it to be a real competitive advantage. So some of it was kind of based on just kind of surveying the landscape and seeing what was there and where we thought that there was a competitive advantage to create really amazing content that served this important hinge point or this inflection point where you needed to bring together culture with commercial intent. But then also a lot of the clients that we worked with were helping influence that too. So we work with a lot of direct to consumer clients, a lot of kind of digitally native brands that they need to be able to drive conversion at the same time that they’re building credibility or they’re telling that brand story like they didn’t have. necessarily a bunch of money to do sort of everything, right? They didn’t have like full top of funnel money, mid funnel, bottom funnel. They kind of had one, you know, they’d circle one budget and they needed to do a lot of things within that. And so we kind of developed a bit of a, it’s almost like what we call like inside out storytelling. So we kind of, you know, figured out like, what are the reasons to believe what, you know, what are the kind of more functional messages that we need to needed to use in order to drive conversion. But then what did the brand stand for? What was its ethos? What was like that unique message? you know, place that it could own and kind of crafting a story that could do both of those things. And so if we felt like if we could kind of make those two things work together in the middle, it would be able to stretch up into the top of funnel brand awareness campaign and also be pulled down into those lower, you know, lower funnel, you know, performance pieces. And so, you know, for us, it was about how do we, you know, find that kind of intersection of brand and demand? How do we storytell around that? If we could do that really well, it would scale up to, you know, top of funnel and scale down to those performance channels. So, you know, that’s where we kind of found success with the clients. And we also, you know, that was, you know, equal parts kind of insight on our side, but then also kind of what we were seeing with the clients, you know, really needed, um, you know, to be able to kind of, you know, both drive, you know, brand metrics, but then also really drive performance metrics. Well, speaking of success, your work has premiered at Sundance, Tribeca, South by Southwest, and you’ve even earned some Emmy nods. How does that storytelling pedigree shape your client work? And I think on top of that, does it build an expectation from them that we want to win awards too? So first of all, I think to answer the first part of that question, like for us, it’s just all storytelling. So whether we’re kind of making a commercial for a brand or a film that ends up at a film festival, it’s all the same pursuit. It’s bold ideas, honest expression, storytelling rooted in craft. And these longer form projects that we do that really continues to help us hone our craft and keep us excited about ideas that we may have that we want to pursue. But it also enables us to bring that kind of sharpened craft to bear for our clients. I think the expectation from our clients is that we are not necessarily winning awards, but it’s how are we moving the needle? How are we driving a key KPI for the business? And so that’s where we are so focused on creating work that actually works. So we want to make sure whatever that might be, if we’re driving conversion volume, if we’re trying to get signups or whatever it may be, that’s the goal that’s always in our mind. How can our creative and our storytelling service that? And so, you know, I think the expectation is that we create a really great story that’s able to drive conversion. If we win awards along the way, you know, that’s great, too. But it’s certainly not the thing that’s, you know, the top of our mind, or I think the top of our clients mind either. I love that. You said documentary is the most powerful ad format, which I think is probably my favorite thing to have said on this show in a month. Because I believe that too. What makes customer-driven storytelling so persuasive compared to polished campaigns? This really stems from the fact that people don’t want to be sold to. They want to believe you. And I think one of the most persuasive ways to do that is to use real customers. We have a documentary background. We’re always making documentary films. It’s a medium that we’re incredibly passionate about. And the reason that we do that and the reason we’re passionate about it is because that’s where truth lives. That’s where human storytelling lives. And ultimately, that’s such a strong way for us to connect with each other to learn about something, to believe in something. And so, you know, when we think about using that as a tactic or that as a medium for a brand, you know, this just engenders so much more trust and believability when someone is kind of at that moment when their, you know, consideration is really key. They want to hear from someone else that this is something to believe in. And they want to be able to see themselves in you know, in that person’s shoes. And so we feel like, you know, being able to bring human stories to the forefront is just such a powerful tool for brands to get their message across. It’s really kind of proof is in the pudding. And so we spend a lot of time kind of the way that we apply our craft to that is, you know, there’s certainly the way in which we work with real customers and real folks who have a real story to tell. That’s certainly like, you know, a big part of the skills that we bring, but then also how do we bring that brand voice and that brand style and, you know, what that brand stands for? How do we use that as a part of that documentary treatment? I think that’s a really fun exercise for us because both of those things need to coexist for, you know, a customer testimonial or a, or a, a real person narrative and documentary to exist for a brand, you kind of need to bring those two things together. Those are some of our most favorite projects to work on, is kind of threading that needle, telling that story in a real honest and true and human way, but then also bring that kind of brand voice and brand style and brand look of feel into the documentary. And so, you know, we think that authenticity is obviously, you know, that’s priceless. If we can get that, if we can tell that human story, we can really drive growth. We can see that those performance metrics really start to turn on while also kind of driving affinity for the brand and hitting those brand metrics. So it’s a really just kind of, you know, really powerful medium for brand storytelling. It’s time now for what I think of as the dreaded question of the show. I’m going to mention AI. As AI has evolved and reshapes creative, where do you see its limits, especially when it comes to capturing authentic human stories? You know, on top of what you just said, I think this is pretty relevant. Yeah, I mean, we’re using AI in really everything we do. Um, you know, we were just talking before we jumped on and how powerful it is for, for post-production and audio cleanup and all of that. And we certainly use it in our, in our post house. We use it a lot in iteration, sort of like ideation and. iteration and proving something out early and quickly, we’re able to get a lot farther faster within the concepting phase using AI. But the reality is that when you’re being sold to, or if you’re trying to get somebody to make a purchase, we want to feel a human story. feel before we think, you know, and we think, you know, you sort of have to go through that feel, think, do, you know, psychological, you know, framework for someone to get to a purchase decision. And so, you know, if it’s not coming from a human place, Ultimately, it’s not going to make you feel something. And we’ve all seen the AI content. We’re still in this kind of uncanny valley of getting somebody to actually feel. And talking about documentary content, talking about real stories, real human stories, what’s better than that? That’s the thing that’s going to hook you and get you to do something. Same thing happens in our original content too, right? Like we’re just trying to get you to feel something. We might have an idea that we wanted to get across a theme or a message, but the way you do that is through real human emotion. So, I mean, advertising, if we want it to work, it’s gotta come from that place. Absolutely. How do you balance your focus on these bold ideas and cultural relevance with the demands of scale and measurable outcomes? I mean, we are a very data-driven industry at this point, and I think data in and of itself is mostly without emotion. You know, it’s mostly without all the things that you’re clearly very excited about. How do you achieve that balance? I mean, we use data in order to kind of influence the ideas that we come up with. Right. So that’s sort of the first step in the process are its insights. It’s, you know, consumer data. You know, we’re taking in all of that, all of those as as kind of a framework or a starting point. And then we’re using kind of our heart and soul and emotional, you know, roots in order to, you know, be able to storytell to on top of that data, right? Like that’s kind of all of the kind of building blocks for us to kind of create the sandbox to play in. And so that’s, you know, for us, we call it, it’s not necessarily a formula. I think that’s what people try to do with data is they try to say, okay, this has to then lead to this and this has to lead to that. We love data, but we say that it’s form. It’s form, it’s not formula. It gives our story a shape. We understand what are kind of the points and the reasons to believe or all the messaging that’s testing in the right way. We understand that that’s the form that a story needs to shape. But it’s not the formula. And so you can kind of still layer on the emotion, the heart, the soul onto that. And, you know, when those two things combine, you know, that’s where you get a lot of a lot of the power. So we need data for sure. But we think about it really in terms of form and not formula. Excellent. Well, we’re going to go over time just a couple of minutes here because I have another bonus question for you I’m dying to ask. Going back to the documentary topic for a moment, is there a documentary that you haven’t made yet that you’d like to make? And if so, what would it be about? Oh, wow. What a great question. I mean, we are so, you know, the documentary that we made that I think we had such great success with was a documentary called Zion. And it was a story about a high school wrestler who was born without the lower half of his body. Actually, there’s a poster behind me. We took that to Sundance. We sold it to Netflix. It won a few Emmy Awards. And it was just an incredible story about this one guy just doing just incredible things that allowed, you know, no matter where you were in your life, if you saw this guy’s story, if you heard the kind of excitement and, you know, just like tenacity and everything that he brought to his own life, despite everything that, you know, the obstacles that were put in front of him, it would do, you know, it it only puts a smile on your face. It only gets you to correct those negative thoughts and kind of pursue life with the same excitement and tenacity that this kid Zion has. I think any story that allows us to kind of bring that human spirit of people who are overcoming adversity or taking on something that they’re so passionate about. These are the stories that we need, especially in the world that we live in today, to ignite our own passions, to challenge us to take on bigger things, be that beacon for us to follow. These are the stories that we really care about. I think to give a broad answer to your question is, Any opportunity to tell an exciting human interest story, that’s what just gets us so geared up to be able to kind of inspire and ignite that spark in people. Any opportunity to tell a doc story like that, we’re excited for. Absolutely love that. If one wanted to find out more about Bindery and probably just as important, if not more so, view some of your work, where should they go? Our website is bindery.co. That’s the best place to check us out. If you happen to be in Chelsea, we’re on 29th Street. Please stop by. We’d love to meet you. Well, Greg, thanks so much for taking part in the show today. This was an absolute pleasure. I love your enthusiasm and I love your love of documentaries. Yeah, man, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for the time.
