Join Katie as she talks with Sheila Marmon, Founder and CEO, Mirror Digital on how she built her firm, creating a thriving employee culture, the still untapped power of underrepresented creators, and pushing through against all odds.
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Hi, I’m Katie Kempner and welcome to Perspectives, which is a series of inspiring conversations with remarkable working women. And I am really thrilled today to be talking with Sheila Marmon, founder and CEO of Mirror Digital. Hello. Hi, Katie. How are you? Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for taking the time to join us. I know you are very busy. And with that in mind, I think we should just jump right in. And do you think you could just start by sharing a little bit about your career path up until Mura Digital? Absolutely. My career path before I became an entrepreneur and launched Mirror Digital was very traditional corporate career path. And literally in my head, I had I’m going to be a business person like I did not know what that meant. But I started my career in strategy consulting, working for a small firm in Boston and then went to business school. And it was there that I really started thinking about what I wanted to do next. A little bit of entrepreneurship was in my head. Storytelling was always of interest to me. So I thought about what would I potentially want to do next? When I graduated business school, I ended up becoming an investment banker for media and entertainment. I know you’re like, what does investment banking have to do with storytelling? I really wanted to understand how media companies worked. how those large media conglomerates that we all know, Viacom, Interactive Corp, Time Warner, all the big ones at the time, how did they actually drive revenue by telling stories? And so as a banker, I was really an insider in that conversation in terms of helping large corporations think about growing their businesses. I learned the ins and outs of the media business from an outsider’s point of view and then went to work at a large media company in a magazine division. I worked for Time Inc. for several years at large brands like People and InStyle and Real Simple. And I was very focused on two things, digital transformation, which we didn’t have those words back then, but it was like, what do we do with these great magazine brands on digital platforms? And then I was also very focused on identifying new ways to reach multicultural audiences. So is that new titles? Like we did a spinoff of Sports Illustrated called Sports Illustrated Latino. We acquired a lifestyle magazine for women of color. We launched a big fashion and beauty magazine for women of color. So it’s thinking about how do you broaden the portfolio, both in terms of new products and then introducing new brands. So then what inspired you to start your company now, Mirror Digital? I loved the work I was doing. I really love the affinity that people had for magazine brands, including myself. People loved the magazines that they read with a passion. And the only thing that made me think about leaving was that I really felt that digital was going to be a catalyst for change across every single thing. And I wanted to be closer to it. I wanted to be In the middle of it, and what I saw my work is that I was doing a lot of digital transformation work and I was doing a lot of multicultural work, but those two things never intersected so there wasn’t a real strong thrust or I didn’t see anyone in the market thinking about how to serve. communities of color with digital products and services. And so that’s really what my initial thought was with Mirror Digital is how can I really drive platforms with stories that reach multicultural consumers and provide an opportunity for brands to reach digital consumers on those platforms. And so is that what Mirror Digital does? Yes. Yes, ma’am. That’s what Mirror Digital does. So we really launched Mirror Digital to help brands reach diverse audiences on digital ad platforms. And we’ve just grown and diversity can mean a lot of things and it should become more and more inclusive over the years. But it’s always thinking about what is that exciting next audience that that media may not be targeting directly because digital gets there first. So there’s a way to aggregate people who are focused on a specific audience and bring that audience to market at scale in a way that interests Fortune 100 clients or large scale clients. So we have We have done work for the world’s largest brands. Some folks like, you know, General Motors, AT&T, Amazon, McDonald’s. So these are partners who are longstanding and that we’ve got to do lots of really exciting things with. Now brands need to be working with creators and they need to be creating work that’s reflective of the people that are buying their products, but that often still is not happening. Can we talk about that a little bit? Absolutely. So you’re kind of teasing out two really important issues. The first one is representation in your creative. So do your ads, do your own media platforms. have people that really represent what America looks like. So that’s one question. How inclusive are we in the casting of our commercials? How inclusive are we in our employment structure that makes sure that there’s a voice, you know, everyone has a voice and a seat at the table? So that’s one, you know, a couple of factors of work. We’re less involved in that from a traditional advertising perspective. We really sit squarely in the creative economy and in next generation media where we’re thinking about how do we activate storytellers who are creators, mostly on social platforms, many who also have websites, many who have podcasts, how do we activate them telling an authentic story, and integrate our brand partners into that conversation in a way that is credible, that makes sense, that is engaging, and that drives results. And when we think about who those creators are, that’s when we make sure we’re being really, really inclusive because we know them, we know where they are, we know how to find them, and we’re really good matchmakers of bringing a creator from our network into a relationship or an opportunity with a brand. Well, let’s talk about some of those creators, that particular creative community. Absolutely. Can you tell me who it consists of and how you find them and how you work together, all the good stuff? Oh yeah, absolutely. So my firm started doing work in what we now call the creator economy very early. So we were a pioneer and literally just kind of making it up because there was no roadmap, there was no template. So going back to 2008, we started looking at people who had large followings on Facebook. There were some culturally specific social media platforms that targeted different groups, African-Americans or Latinos or Asians. We started looking at Twitter when that became popular, but there were no ad integrations. There were no ad tools. So we were having people change their cover page. We would have people mention the brand in a conversation. And I don’t even think you could tag them back then. But it was really very, very nascent where what we were doing, the goal was always tag How do you insert the brand in a conversation that makes sense? Because the creator was the trusted voice. They were part of a community, not overlord of a community telling them what to do, but there really was that natural engagement. So when you could get the brand in the mix and spark a conversation, you could really kind of catch wildfire and have something exciting happen. So the way that we found creators, is that we really look for people who are an authority on their very specific editorial topic, so it could be fashion, but not just generic fashion, but how is. streetwear influencing high fashion or collegiate, not just what’s the college experience like, but how do HBCU traditions build community? So there are really specific conversations that were happening where people really own their lane. A lot of these creators are that I knew of because I just, you know, lived online and was kind of part of it from the genesis. But a lot of them know each other. And so once you build a relationship with a few that have a strong following and you help them be successful, you’re networked into their community and meet more creators and so on and so on and so on. So that was the beginning. Now the creator economy is just a booming, very sophisticated industry. And we think of it as a mature media channel in a lot of instances from our point of view. And so we have our own set of creators for sure that we’ve worked with for over a decade and we continue. to add to that list, meeting people at conferences, meeting people at industry events, meeting people at parties. I have a whole team of 20 somethings that are out and about everywhere, kind of keeping their fingers on the pulse of what’s hot. And that those cultural pulses, that cultural information is funneled into the organization and informs how we go out and find the next creator that is going to help our brand partners stay relevant. Can you just give me one or two examples of some of your favorite projects? Yeah, one of my favorite projects that I actually talk about a lot is one that we did with General Motors. They were looking to reach the Asian American Pacific Islander audience with their Cadillac Lyric, which is an electric vehicle. Asian Americans over index in electric vehicles. And these are also, you know, Cadillac is a premium brand. Asian American audiences also have the highest household income in the United States in terms of an ethnic group. So we took these two pieces of information, which anybody could find, and we said, okay, well, where do we go from here? The Mirror Digital secret sauce was saying, what’s that cultural insight that’s going to make this not just be, okay, we’re going to send an ad out to Asian Americans about a Cadillac Lyric, we had the insight that Asian American millennials who are the core target for the lyric were really rethinking some of traditional Asian American values. So in terms of how you would show up and be successful in some of the traditional veins, it would be more humble, more quiet, more reserved and letting your work speak for itself This next generation of Asian Americans are living more boldly, which perfectly aligned with the lyrics. So we had two creators, Asian American podcasters, the Asian Boss Girl podcasters, and we had Phil Yoon, who is a visual artist. They both told their authentic stories of being undeniably heard in terms of the podcasters and undeniably seen in terms of this amazing visual artist. It’s hard to kind of walk through what that narrative was on a podcast here without some of those visuals to support, but it was a beautiful representation of how living boldly and being iconic, which are core tenets of the Cadillac lyrics branding, aligned with this newfound kind of spirit among these Asian American millennials. And the results really bore that out in terms of having engagement rates that were 300 percent over average and having brand lift measured by Kantar that were all, you know, double digit increases in brand affinity. You know, this is a brand for me, et cetera. So smashing success and a whole lot of fun. That sounds it. So. Let’s shift gears a little bit, so to speak, which seems like a really smart thing to say after talking about a car. Yeah, I’m following you. I’m following you. I got that one. But if you have to point it out, then it’s no good. So, all right. But, you know, I saw that your company was recognized as a best place to work by ad age. And I happen to know that’s a particularly difficult honor to get because your employees are asked independently of your firm of what they think of working for you. So what do you think are some of the things really that go into creating a culture where employees feel recognized, empowered, happy, especially at this very crazy, and I’m using that word because I keep saying unprecedented, think that that’s just going to continue, but especially during these very crazy times? That’s a great question. And I think the way that we make sure our employees feel supported and create an environment for their success and for them to thrive is that we give them a seat at the table in shaping that environment. So as an organization, we’re very democratic in our decision making. And that really resonates with what we know about how Gen Z likes to show up in the workplace. They really value knowing that their voice is heard. So providing forms for them to deliver upward feedback, executing employee surveys, having small meetings or any meeting where we invite everyone to speak up if they feel like they have a contribution to make. And those contributions are heard and recognized and incorporated when When they make sense and when they add value. So I think starting with that canvas of everybody has a voice and everyone has a seat at the table is definitely part of it. And then there’s also a real community of care. You know, I approach the work that I do with a strong sense of purpose with the communities that we serve. So helping underrepresented creators have a seat at the table really resonates with our team because a lot of them come from those communities and those cultures. So they feel a real sense of purpose in the work that we’re doing. And we are also giving them, you know, I would say a peek behind the curtain, but in terms of leadership, but more we as leadership, we are vulnerable. So when we’re vulnerable, we model the fact that it’s okay to make mistakes and that, it’s okay to ask for help and that we sometimes have to figure this out together. And so being transparent, about these things and when we have a problem to solve or when something didn’t quite go right, gives us a lot of credibility and that they can trust what leadership says. That’s a really smart point. And I think sometimes, you know, as a business owner myself, sometimes it’s being transparent, but also being reassuring that, you know, this is going on, but, you know, here’s our plan. Here’s how we plan on getting through. Absolutely. And I think going back to the word transparency that you also echoed is that when you’re transparent with that plan and you let people know what’s going on, that creates the sense of security because they can follow along. It’s like, okay, we said we were going to do this. Oh, yep, here, we’re doing it. And then, oh, the next step is this. They know what the plan is and what the direction is. Yeah, that’s a great point. So other industry lists and recognition Your firm has been on Inc’s fastest growing companies for the past two years. And this is a hard time to grow a business. What are some of the key lessons you might be able to share with us about growing a business right now? That’s a very broad question. I’m very aware of it. So feel free to answer it. Well, you know, I think that women-owned businesses are still… dramatically underfunded relative to their male counterparts. And this is something that I think people have spoken about a lot. But I think it’s worth repeating that, you know, when I launched my business, it’s typically a venture funded model, and we were not able to secure venture funding. So, you know, women receive less than 2% of all venture funding, women of color receive a small fraction of that. So there’s very little economic support for getting businesses off the ground. So I launched the business and really just invested all of my operating profits. So we operated lean, we learned how to succeed. in those lean environments and continue to move the business forward. So what I would say that has been critical to our being able to kind of hit these milestones with, you know, being named to these fastest growing lists is the fact that over time, We were able to invest to a degree where we were generating enough money where I could hire top tier talent and elevate the human capital in the organization. And that really was a game changer. So we had been inching along, growing 20 percent a year, 20 percent, 20 percent. And then, when I was able to finally afford these experts that’s when we started to see this triple digit growth and these really outsized results that helped us move the business to the next level. And then your question about kind of how do we continue to do that in hard times. It’s tough, but knowing that I have a brain trust and knowing that my team comes from the organizations of the highest caliber and being able to inject all of that knowledge into our decision-making has been really helpful. So you mentioned high caliber and earlier on, you mentioned just sort of offhand that you went to business school. You went to Harvard Business School where you got your MBA. And before that, you got your BA from Princeton. I mean, that’s an incredibly impressive Ivy League education and pedigree. And it’s an education that most people really only dream about. How important do you think it was that you went to those schools and you had that education in helping you get where you are today? That’s a great question. I think that for me to be on this journey as an entrepreneur looking to build a scalable business, it’s been critically important. But it’s been even more important as a woman of color because in instances where I might not have had the opportunity to meet with an advisor or get in the door with a customer, those brands gave me credibility. that I wouldn’t have necessarily had otherwise. So I think that for me, these going a traditional business route, you know, quote unquote, business, you know, air quotes, I think that having that pedigree has been tremendously helpful. Now, does that mean that people who don’t have this pedigree can’t be successful? Absolutely, they can. I do believe that this business experience and my educational experience has helped me be a better leader and be a better business person. I do feel like the knowledge base has been tremendous. In fact, one of my mentors coming out of school, he was telling me it’s so important to build that toolkit if you want to launch a company. Because especially once you launch as a woman or a woman of color, if you fail, it’s harder to get back up. It’s harder to get that second chance. So really being prepared, I felt, was important for me. And my education was a large part of that. And the connections that you make, right? You stay. Oh, let me tell you about the connections because Mirror Digital would not be here without the connections. You know, I did mention that getting venture funding, even with my resume, you know, honors graduate from Princeton, award winning, you know, scholar coming out of Harvard Business School. I wasn’t able to raise money, but my network did show up for me. So I was able to raise a friends and family round. that was largely comprised of classmates from Princeton and relationships from Harvard Business School. So without them, Mirror Digital might not be here today. So I am eternally grateful. Well, that is fantastic. But now I want to kind of flip the question in and ask you this. And I probably come to this with a certain way of thinking because my father is a retired, actually quite a well-known philosophy professor. So I’ve always… believed I’ve been taught the importance of degrees, but how important is it? Do you look at degrees when you’re hiring? Do you look at where someone went to school? Does that matter anymore? So ironically, I don’t look at degrees as a kind of gating factor in terms of whether or not someone can do a job. I really think that there are a couple of things. I look at, have they done the job? Have they successfully done the job? So if you have demonstrated success in a role or a similar role, I am more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt and see if you can prove yourself. Young people… Young people coming out of school, I really look for passion and drive and grit. There isn’t a certain set of schools that we recruit from. There isn’t any sort of barrier based on whether you’ve had one type of educational experience or another. We are very, very open in looking for talent wherever it lies. So this, I’m not saying anything more about tricky times or unprecedented times. But let’s just say right now, as in other times as well, it’s hard to be a leader. And you really do it brilliantly. I’ve heard that from a number of people now and clearly with the continued growth of your company. What are maybe three lessons that you can share with us on leading? Three lessons to share on leading, first and foremost, is to show up as yourself. I think that has been absolutely critical to my success, that I am open, I am vulnerable, I am honest. All of those things help build trust and help build affinity, I think, as a leader. The second thing, I show up prepared. I think that it is really important to master your craft and i think a lot of times people forget that in this time we’re in where whoever’s buzzy because they post on social media or you know have a name for themselves have to do a little bit of looking under the hood to make sure that people can do what they say that they’re going to do and then the third thing that i think is really important is remembering that you can’t do much alone and to really have an impact of any scale You have to have a team that believes in you and believes in the mission of what you’re trying to accomplish. So I keep those three things in mind and I think that is what helps me keep moving along. Well, it’s working for you. So just to end on the advice track, is there one piece of advice that has really helped you through your life and your career that you could please share with us? Yes, I would say in my life, I have done some things that have been considered unconventional and taken a lot of risk. And that perspective, I really attribute it to my mom. When I was 12 years old, I was considering going to boarding school. I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, a very under-resourced community, and people from my community did not go to boarding school. It was a private college preparatory school. And I was terrified at the notion of leaving home and being away from my family and friends in a totally foreign environment. And my mother told me, if you don’t like it, you can always come home. So that has stuck with me throughout my entire experience. Try new things. Say yes. make the leap, go on the adventure, because if it’s not working out, you can always come home. So that’s what I’ll leave you with. What a great way to end. Sheila, thank you so much. It’s really been a pleasure talking with you. It is really been a pleasure speaking with you as well, Katie. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. And thank you for listening.
