In this episode, we’re joined by Virginie Chesnais, Chief Marketing Officer at Happydemics, a global brand lift and advertising effectiveness solution.
Virginie shares why building trusted, data-led partnerships is key to thriving in a fragmented media landscape, how brand lift studies go beyond vanity metrics to reveal true impact, and why marketers should stop measuring what’s easy and start measuring what matters.
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So I’m absolutely delighted to welcome Virginie to this edition of the Business of Marketing podcast recorded live here at Advertising Week Europe in London. Welcome.
Thank you so much for having me. So first of all, tell us a little bit about you and your role and what you do.
Yeah, so I’m the CMO of Happydemics. Happydemics is a global solution for measuring and optimizing advertising effectiveness across all media. And so I joined the company almost seven years ago now. And before that, I occupied different roles in communication and marketing, including over four years at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, now Stellantis, in the fleet and business department.
Wow. And tell me a little bit about what the business actually does. Tell me, bring it to life for me.
Yeah, Happydemics. So we were created in 2015. Our flagship product is brand lift measurements. So what we do is we partner with media agencies, ad sales agencies, advertisers, publishers, and we provide them with full-funnel brand metrics. So be it consideration, brand familiarity, purchase intent, preference, according to a specific campaign objective. And we collect these KPIs amongst the targeted audiences of the campaign. And so what we do is we measure and also provide them with optimization tips for them to generate the maximum value of their campaign and to be able to optimize and create a meaningful impact among their audiences.
And you mentioned the word partner there, which is great because obviously it’s all about partnership, right? So tell me a little bit about how those partnerships have played a key role in your marketing strategy.
Well, I guess it talks to me, this keyword, because I think collaboration is crucial in this industry. And even more with the fragmentation that we have to deal with. It’s an increasing fragmentation, audiences, formats, media. And I guess when it comes to collaboration, one thing that comes to my mind is trust. And so collaboration cannot thrive without trust. And that’s why this is what we want to provide the industry with. We are really positioned as a trusted third party partner for, as I said, agencies, publishers. So really we sit in the intersection of all these players and we do it through transparency. Because, you know, advertisers, they demand proof of impacts with billions spent on advertising, be it traditional, digital. And so they have to rely on data that is reliable, unbiased. And we know that advertising is often measured by actors that, well, sell it. And this cannot be, this can no longer be. So, yeah, so this is where we step in.
And the world’s obviously changing. I mean, you said seven years, I think, right? So, you know, how has your approach kind of changed and evolved? I mean, you talk about fragmentation, but there are so many other kind of factors in that period. How have you then kind of adapted, you know, to that change?
Yeah, it’s a very dynamicworld. I guess it’s also why I’ve been in the industry for seven years, because it’s so interesting. I guess we listen to our clients a lot. We have a product that is meant for them and so we have a clear roadmap and yeah, we listen to them a lot. And since we partner with publishers, advertisers, we have a lot of feedback.
And I guess also our products, HappyMix was built around a powerful belief that advertising is only valuable if it generates a real impact amongst audiences, if it resonates. And so that’s also how our product has been evolving because it’s built around consumers. And yeah. It’s really interesting just sort of with a consumer hat on for a second, right?
And along that same sort of question around change, our behaviors have evolved, the channels that we engage with, our propensity to be impacted has probably changed over time. How have you kind of adapted the model and the method to measure impact along that way?
Well, basically our methodology hasn’t evolved. So this is also what’s interesting. So what we do for you to have a bit more of context, we collect answers amongst targeted audiences. So what we do is we partner with a network of more than 100,000 publishers worldwide. And so it allows us to distribute non-paid, clean, little surveys to these target audiences. And that’s how we collect feedback.
And what we do is we compare two pools of respondents to get our data: people who recalled the ads and people who didn’t. And the difference between the two is what we call the uplift. And that’s what lets you know if your ad had an impact, how it shifted perception in your audience.
And what we do is that, and that’s really important for us, because once again, with the fragmentation of audiences and the fact that all platforms have their own set of metrics, but what matters to us is to be able to collect holistically insights and be able to compare and just to be able to follow the brands in all its diversity, in all its touch points.
And so what we do is that it’s based, our methodology is based on ad recall. So of course, HappyMix is data agnostic. It means that we leverage all kinds of data that we have. We are an ad tech, so be it ideas, cookies when we have, but it’s always based on ad recall. And that’s what provides us a unified framework for our clients to be able to compare effectiveness holistically across the media mix. So you have that constant.
Got it. Okay, that’s really helpful context. Turning, I suppose, a little bit to the role that you have in the business, and that role is obviously linked to marketing and growth. What’s your sort of go-to kind of market strategy? How do you like to go to market?
I would say, once again, partnerships. Yeah. And I realized that it’s really key. What we do, we are very lucky because our product gives us gold in the data that we collect. And so we realized that this trusted third party position that we have, it doesn’t just benefit advertisers. It benefits media agencies because they can strengthen trust among their clients with independent, reliable data publishers because they can prove the effectiveness of their inventory.
And so we partner with them with just lettingthem know that we’re here to give them the data that they need to prove the value that they generate. And they generate a lot of value. And so we’re here to just support them in this and to take them even further and to be able to strengthen links and real relationships with their clients.
And linking to that, from a marketing point of view, what sort of activations and tactics are you doing with those partners? It can be use cases, events, co-branded reports. It can be a lot of things. Tell me about some of the more successful campaigns and activations that you’ve run.
In terms of brand lifts, you mean? More around growing, so yeah, like partnership kind of marketing basically campaigns. Like an event, like here we are, an advertising, I’m sure many of the people here are your customers. A few months ago I was with Amnet, it’s a trading desk, and they had an event about digital audio. And so they invited us to talk with them on stage because they needed us to add this proof of impact that digital audio is effective. And I guess what worked is that we were able to have a real conversation and to create value for the audience, not just say that they are the best.
Yeah, not just selling, right? Yeah, but really say that digital audio has a real, has a unique strength, how they can really leverage it. And so everyone was interested and it was a real success. So this is the kind of value that I want to provide my clients with and my partners with. And I’m very lucky to be able to do it with brand lift measurement. As you said, you really are a marketing trust.
Yeah. I love that. So looking at your team, how do you structure your team? My team. So one part works on demand generation strategies. So it’s orchestrated thanks to a team of four people. And then I work with a brand manager, communication and events manager to be able to make our brand resonate and to make sure that these partnerships are amplified and that we, yeah, let them shine.
And do you have a good relationship with the sales team? How does that work? Yes. I guess it’s, yeah, it’s not always easy. But actually we co-created the strategy, the CRO and myself. So it helps. But yeah, I guess it takes on a lot of collaboration once again, communication. And the thing is that in my team, we are the ones generating the leads. So we need the sales teams. The sales teams need us. And once we know that, the goal is to talk the same language with the same KPIs. And that’s also something I see, yeah, these conversions between marketing and sales. It happens in the advertising industry between media and marketing teams. That’s also something we want to solve. So yeah, I think it happens in every company.
And going back to our point about partners, obviously you’re bringing in a customer. They’ve become a partner, whether they’re a publisher or agency, etc. How do you think about sort of going beyond the sale and growing that relationship? How do you institutionalize and structure that from a marketing point of view? I think when it comes to brand lift measurement, I think I truly believe in the value of repetition, scalability. And that’s what I think will makeour partners grow as well, because it’s what makes access to consistent benchmarks, unified metrics. Unified metrics and being able to access those benchmarks and continuously optimize effectiveness, this is how I want our partners to grow. And once they understand it and they understand the scale effects and that brand lift measurement shouldn’t be on and off, it should be always on, something clicks and then it’s an everyday relationship with them.
Tell me a little bit about the culture that you’re looking to try and build inside the organization. Inside my organization, I’m thinking always look beyond being bold. I think boldness is something that we want to develop and that we trust. And always, yeah, I think that you could do more and as a team. So we don’t wait for something to be less perfect before going further. So very much that whole culture of experimentation and innovation, creativity. Yeah. Like it.
And that, I guess, linked to my next question, which is around sort of metrics. You know, what’s your sort of go to stack of metrics? What do you live by? Happy dynamics. Well, we are very self-driven, I would say. So lead generation will come to my mind. And then we actually track the joint communications and activations that we are able to do with our clients and partners, because it’s something that allows us to grow awareness, but also recognition and to really strengthen this third party position. That’s so important for us. So, yeah.
And as I suppose, you know, you have to practice what you preach, right? Ultimately. Exactly. You know, you haven’t got any excuses, I suppose, in a sense. You’ve got to live the brand. And are you big, big users of brand lift studies yourselves in your own marketing? We use the benchmarks to create content. And it’s so interesting to see how, like when you realize that you can go beyond surface level metrics, short term conversions, last clicks to really understand how a campaign changes consumers’ perception and the kind of insights that you can gain across the mix. It really uncovers insights that are game changing. And it gives you an overview of the advertising industry. That’s priceless.
And back to the point around the culture of experimentation. Obviously, you’ve got a wealth of data now available to you in terms of tracking and turning that hopefully into insights. Tell me a little bit about some of the things that you’re doing where you’ve learned something, you know, and then applied that knowledge to the next kind of iteration or stage of the campaign. I would say creativity. Like as a CMO, I know how important it is, but it’s always seen as challenging to really measure the impact that it has in advertising. And now our brand lift solution, it covers three categories which work together:
Targeting performance
Impact on recallers
Creative diagnosis
So like, does your ad interesting, likeability,did recallers like it, the perception of the formats. And so our analysis shows that these KPIs are closely linked to impact ones. So the more you refine the creative and the more interest you drive, the more consideration or purchase intent you will drive.
And once you understand that, and so we find that, imagine you have a strong ad recall but very weak attribution, you will have no impact because the campaign will not be associated with the right brand. So it’s such a waste of energy and time and money. Or you can have a very strong interest but a low consideration, which means that your ad is interesting but you can work on the message and refine it so it’s more persuasive or clear because you’re missing something.
And so once you understand that everything works together and you have to make it work and it leaves you with a real value. The impact of the impact. Yeah.
And it’s just like we always come back to this strong belief that we have to collaborate and to stop working in silo and to have fragmented metrics that don’t tell the whole story. So that’s really something that I’m very happy to now be confident about as a CMO. Happy in the name of the business. Yeah.
I love it all the way through. And right now there’s so much going on, isn’t there? I mean, here we are, the buzz of Advertising Week and every day something new, change constant. What trends and shifts are exciting you right now?
I may not be very original, but I think AI, obviously, because if players use it well, it’s going to bring so much to the industry. We know that and I was telling you, we are going to enhance creativity, recommendation, prediction as well. And we are happy to mix our currently leveraging AI and see how it can empower our clients even more.
And we are working on a product that will anticipate the impact that a campaign can have on a specific audience before it even launches. So AI. And I think as well, advertising is going cross media and people centric, that is for sure.
Yeah. Consumers demand transparency as well. Privacy. And so I think AI can really have an impact, but we will be able to unlock this impact and fully unlock it if we shift our approach to data and if we go towards solutions that are privacy friendly and that finally do everything they can to resonate with audiences the right way.
Imagine I’m a marketeer and I’m listening to this podcast right now. I’m in the gym. Maybe I’m dropping my kids off at school and I’ve never done a brand lift study. What’s your advice to me?
I would say really ask yourself the kind of brands that you want to build, how you want to track it and what are you trying to achieve? And once you know it, once you know the kind of brand you want to build, then go for it and measure the impact that you want to have.
And so that’s what brand lift measurement is about. We are advocating for a brand driven impact approach, meaning that we are convinced that branding campaigns have a long term growth effect.And we really want to show that we want to link campaign success to tangible business outcomes. We want to link campaign success to tangible business outcomes and show the unique value of brand metrics, the fact that they are actionable and that you can really use them to answer a goal. And when you think of it, if you run an awareness campaign, you should measure awareness. If you measure clicks, impressions, you’re not going to get the whole story. You’re just going to… And so, yeah, sometimes you measure what’s easy and not necessarily what’s important. And that’s what brand lift measurement is about. It’s about the long game and about the long term effects, which will be so much more interesting.
There is a research from Google and Work saying that more than half of the impacts on ROI appears between 5 and 20 months after the campaign has run. And so if you just look at clicks and short term wins, you miss the long term effect of the campaign. And it’s such a huge missed opportunity. And that just compounds and compounds over time, right?
Yeah. That’s a really good answer to my question. So what would you tell someone who was maybe just starting out in their career? What wisdom or advice would you pass on?
Be curious.
Meet people.
Try things.
Don’t be shy.
Be excited because it’s such an interesting and exciting industry and role.
That’s something that we do at marketing. So I would say just take advantage of what’s happening and of the world of opportunities that opens for you.
Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. The Business of Marketing podcast was brought to you by Path 7, powered by partners built for performance.
